15 Comments

1. Kyle
   Posted February 28, 2008 at 03:55 pm | Permalink

   And just to add to the fun, here’s some more numbers, taken from an Op-Ed by David Broder in today’s Washington Post, entitled, “A Comeback for the Crime Issue“:

   Twenty years ago, the country’s total prison population was 700,000. Next year alone, that many will be released from prison, and, if past trends hold, nearly two-thirds will be rearrested.

   In the next five years, the number of young adults and teenagers will have increased by 1 million, and, if past patterns hold, that will boost the number of crimes by 2.5 million.

2. david
   Posted February 28, 2008 at 03:57 pm | Permalink

   with those numbers i’m surprised that prisons aren’t a part of the new york stock exchange… - or are they?

   is prison a business?

3. Kyle
   Posted February 28, 2008 at 04:32 pm | Permalink

   According to a March 2007 article on CNN Money entitled, “The Hard Sell,” the prison system is a $37 billion industry. There’s new prison construction, of course, with their $14,000 cells, but you’ve got to think about the phone companies, and all the money they make off charging prisoners exorbitant fees to call home. According to the Liberty for Life Association, phone companies charge prisoners $3.95 cents to connect any call, and then 85¢ per minute.

   There’s also the more entrepreneurial businesses, like a “100-hour, $20,000 course that instructs mainly white-collar criminals on the finer points of prison etiquette.” This company did $600,000 worth of business in 2006 and expect 25% growth in 2007.

   You’ve also got to factor in the companies that are getting cheap labor by outsourcing to prisoners. According to an article in the USA TODAY, entitled “Inmates vs. Outsourcing,” some companies are using prisoners to man their call centers, and they’re only paying the prisoners between $120-$200/month. The article says that “at least 2,000 inmates nationwide work in call centers.” It goes on to say that “About 3.5% of the 2.1 million prisoners in the USA produced goods and services worth an estimated $1.5 billion in 2002.”

   Not that I don’t think prisoners should be working if they can. As the article says, the opportunity to work in the call centers reduces the recidivism rate by 24%. All I’m saying is that somebody’s making money off these prisoners, and that opens the system to corruption.

   I mean, last year, California approved $7.8 billion to “improve” its prison system. It included $6.1b for the construction of state prisons, $1.2b for new county jails, and roughly $300 million for various improvements. By the time the taxpayers pay off the bond, the total cost will about $15 billion. But as many detractors of the measure said, “improving” the penal system is not about building more jails. It’s about reforming the system so that there are fewer prisoners.

4. Sam
   Posted February 28, 2008 at 05:05 pm | Permalink

   and what about all of the t.v. shows, like “lockdown”, etc. that profit from these prisoners???

5. david
   Posted February 28, 2008 at 05:42 pm | Permalink

   great… - it’s going to be like two years hard time for jaywalking… - or like… - mandatory jail time after high school… - guys and girls both… - pay phones in their cells with subliminal music that plays softly in the background that urges them to call people…

6. justin
   Posted February 28, 2008 at 06:45 pm | Permalink

   Kyle where are you going with this? Is it a general look at our society or are you saying that the laws are too strict? I would love to see the breakdown of drug related offenses and how many of those are silly got caught with dime bag and end up with felonies.

   Sideshow bob “I’ll be back. You can’t keep the Democrats out of the White House forever, and when they get in, I’m back on the streets, with all my criminal buddies.”

7. Kyle
   Posted February 29, 2008 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

   It’s just a general look at our society, I guess.

   I read an article on Monday or Tuesday that started these thought. I can’t remember if it was an article in this week’s TIME or in this month’s ORION (both are in the Callahan/Sarli bathroom), but I started wondering what the difference was between the number of American farmers and the number of American prisoners. Other than remembering I had it, though, I didn’t do much with the thought.

   Then, yesterday, the NY Times had the “1 in 100 U.S. Adults Behind Bars” as its lead story for the day, and I thought to myself, well, that’s a sign that I should do some research…and so I did.

   As far as those prisoners who are in jail for “silly” reasons, I haven’t done all the research, but a quick survey of Google’s results page suggests that as much 80% of the Americans who are in jail are there for nonviolent crimes, most of which is probably possession.

   Here are some more fun facts for you (taken from a 1998 report put out by The Justice Policy Institute). As of a decade ago:

   • Our prison population was larger than the states of Alaska, North Dakota, and Wyoming combined.
   • Between 1978 and 1998, Texas and California experienced an eightfold increase in its prison population
   • America had over 1 million nonviolent prisoners, most of whom were sent to jail solely due to mandatory sentencing legislation.
   • The EU, which at that point had a population of 370 million, had an entire prison population that one 1/3 of our nonviolent population.
   • India, which in 1998 had a population that was roughly four times the size of the U.S., had an entire prison population that was 1/5 the size of our nonviolent population.
   • 64% of male inmates were nonviolent offenders, and a staggering 83.1% of female inmates were arrested on nonviolent charges.
   • As of 1998, there were 193 white inmates for every 100,000 white Americans; 688 Hispanic inmates/100,000 Hispanic Americans; and 1,571 African-American innames/100,000 African-Americans, which means blacks are imprisoned at 8x the rate of whites, mostly due to drug incarcerations.
   • In 1998, American taxpayers spent $24 billion to incarcerate over 1 million nonviolent offenders, many of whom had either never been locked up before or who had committed no prior acts of violence.
   • That cost exceeded the cost of America’s welfare program by almost 50%. We spent 6x more to incarcerate 1.2 million nonviolent offenders in 1998 than the federal government spent on child care for 1.25 million children.
   • Around the country, from 1987 to 1995, state expenditures for prisons increased by 30% while expenditures for universities decreased by 19%.

   Here’s one more interesting thing from that report:

   Many argue that this growth in imprisonment is a small price to pay for public safety. They say that criminal behavior, no matter how small, must meet with a swift and severe response, lest it grow out of hand. Conservatives…across the country point to drops in crime over the past 5 or so years as proof that getting tough on the violent and the nonviolent alike has reaped substantial dividends.

   There is no doubt that the imprisonment of nearly 2 million people has prevented somecrimes from being committed. But as Michael Tonry, a professor of law and public policy at the University of Minnesota pointed out…,you could choose another two million Americans at random and lock them up, and that would also reduce the number of crimes.

   …[I]n the ten year period from 1980-1991, a period during which the nation’s prison population increased the most, 11 of the 17 states that increased their prison population the least experienced decreases in crime. On the other hand, just 7 of the 13 states that increased their prison populations the most experienced decreases in crime: a virtual wash.

   So, $24 billion spent; a million basically harmless people locked up; and it had no real effect.

   Nice.

8. Kyle
   Posted February 29, 2008 at 04:54 pm | Permalink

   And just so you don’t think I’m leaving out the bad news, this is from an article in today’s Rutland Herald, which cites the same report as the NY Times article:

   Vermont tops the list of states that spend more money on prisons than on higher education, according to a report released Thursday.

   The state spends $1.37 on corrections for every $1 spent on public universities and community colleges.

   The cost of holding one female inmate at the Dale Correctional facility in Waterbury is almost more than tuition for six resident students at the University of Vermont.

9. david
   Posted February 29, 2008 at 05:25 pm | Permalink

   this is ridiculous…

10. justin
    Posted February 29, 2008 at 05:35 pm | Permalink

    It is easier to go to jail then college so this should not be as much of a surprise. Also are the numbers from Iran and places like that reliable. I am not sure but doesn’t Iran just kill/flog/stone people, and wouldn’t that keep down the people they incarcerate? Maybe we should just kill more people to put our number more in line with those places. China? Really? They kill people for tax evasion for Christ sakes.
    I am not sure what the correlation with farming and jail is? I believe that they are independent of one another but I am guessing it is more of a look on the shift in our society.

11. justin
    Posted February 29, 2008 at 06:50 pm | Permalink

    Iran cuts people’s hands and feet off for thievery, and still stone people to death. I will take jail thanks. Without even looking I am willing to bet Libya is not far behind.

    Russia is notorious for its lawlessness, which means it does not lock people up which would help their ratio.

    I am not sure it’s responsible to compare statistics for the US and these countries, if anything people could use these stats and say that the punishment in this country is too lenient. “If only the US cut off people’s hands or stoned people to death that would make people think twice about committing a crime.” I do not agree with that, just pointing out the flaws in the comparison.

12. Kyle
    Posted March 2, 2008 at 06:29 pm | Permalink

    As far as the number of governent-funded prisoner executions, these are from Amnesty International:

    Based on public reports available, Amnesty International estimated that at least 1,010 people were executed in China during the year [of 2006], although these figures are only the tip of the iceberg. Credible sources suggest that between 7,500 to 8,000 people were executed in 2006. The official statistics remain a state secret, making monitoring and analysis problematic.

    Iran executed 177 people, Pakistan 82 and Iraq and Sudan each at least 65. There were 53 executions in 12 states in the USA…91 per cent of all known executions in 2006 took place in China, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Sudan and the USA.

    1,010 is obviously a LONG way away from 53, but still, look at the company we keep.

    Now, Justin, you say Russia is notorious for its lawlessness, and that people don’t get locked up there. An argument could probably be made that in the U.S., the “real” criminals don’t get locked up, just the drug users. You’ve seen The Wire. If you follow the drugs, you get drug dealers and drug users. But if you follow the money, there’s no telling where you’ll end up.

13. justin
    Posted March 2, 2008 at 07:14 pm | Permalink

    Kyle, I guess my point is two fold and this is how these numbers can be turned around.

    One is that I could say that if we had extreme capitol punishment like these countries maybe the crime would be lower. You mention people being put to death, but not all the people in our jails are there for murder. Look at their punishment for theft, assault, and drugs. I am willing to bet it is more severe then ours. You mention the wire, when you get to season 5 there is a part where the Russian guy from season 2 talks from jail. What he says and I paraphrase here is that “he has been to prison in Russia, and this is nothing”. Now I understand that it is a fake show but it makes sense. You look at the amount of people from other countries that end up in the US jail system and I am willing to bet that it’s a piece of cake comparatively.
    Two is on the money aspect of things, are we spending too much money to house and feed people who for the most part knowingly broke the law, maybe the laws are not the best but they are still the law. The increase in numbers could be used as a way to say that the jail system and judicial system is not enough of a deterrent to keep people from doing bad things.

14. Kyle
    Posted March 3, 2008 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    You wrote, “The increase in numbers could be used as a way to say that the jail system and judicial system is not enough of a deterrent to keep people from doing bad things.”

    While that wasn’t exactly my point, it could be. We’re spending all this money to lock up all these people (the overwhelming majority of whom are nonviolent), and it’s not doing a damn thing, especially if you consider that by the time these people get out of jail, they have become (more often than not, if you look at the recidivism rates) lifelong criminals.

    I guess, if I had to go one step beyond “making the observation,” I’d suggest that these numbers make a case for the U.S. to spend more money on drug treatment than on druggie incarceration. Not only will it be cheaper (from a 2005 A.P. article: “[California] saves more than twice the amount of money that it spends on nonviolent drug offenders who are sentenced to treatment rather than prison”), but it has a better chance of rehabilitating the citizens of our society than does prison.

    Think of all the possibilities that are wasting away in some jail cell. Who knows what musician, painter, doctor, engineer, businesswoman, or plain ol’ decent mother is trapped in those four walls, all their potential dripping away, day by day, until finally, there’s nothing left by a con?

    There’s gotta be a better way, is I guess what I’m saying.

15. justin
    Posted March 3, 2008 at 06:00 pm | Permalink

    Well let me just say that the chances are low that, depending on what state you live in, you will go to jail on your first offense. Most times you will get probation and mandatory drug counseling plus drug tests. Obviously this changes depending on what class drug and how much you get caught with. From what I have seen in this state you have to do a lot to get actual time.

    Also an addict is an addict and unless they want help it does not matter what kind of support or counseling or whatever nothing is going to make them get better.

    At least there is one place in this country with universal healthcare.